Read the following edited transcript from last night’s ANDERSON COOPER (CNN) segment. Show title: “O.J. Simpson Arrested in Alleged Robbery Case†— Aired September 17, 2007 – 22:00 ET. Link to the full transcript is located at the end.
OJ’s got quite an SEG (shit eating grin). Guess he has practice…
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COOPER: Now Simpson is under arrest facing charges that could send him to prison for many years.
On his latest mug shot, a grin for the camera. One legal expert thinks she knows why, saying normal people don’t smile when they’re charged with serious crimes.
MURPHY: If that’s not the behavior of a sociopath, I don’t know what is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: She says Simpson’s a sociopath. Let see what our expert thinks. With me now is Dr. Drew Pinsky, an assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at the USC School of Medicine.
What about it, Dr. Drew? A lot of people called him a sociopath. What do you think?
DR. DREW PINSKY, ASSISTANT CLERICAL PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY, USC SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, I don’t know about him particularly. But I think it’s important for us all to understand what a sociopath is. And you can decide for yourself.
A sociopath is someone who has difficulty deciding the difference between what’s right and what’s wrong, who tends to be very grandiose, who really cannot appreciate that other people have feelings or agency other than what he needs from him.
And they become very exploitative of other people, can be violent and aggressive. They tend to do drugs and alcohol. It’s — it’s a spectrum of disorder he does kind of fit. And it’s possible he does.
The only other thing that can really create that same kind of manifestation is really drug addiction. And you know, if somebody does manifest circumstances and behaviors like that, you almost hope they’re drug addicts, because at least that’s treatable. Sociopathy, unfortunately, is not.
They tend to have run-ins with the law. They tend to have more trouble. They tend to keep going until something stops them.
COOPER: Dr. Drew, stick around. We’re going to talk to you just after this commercial break, along with Ryan Smith and Jeffrey Toobin.
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With me again, our CNN senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, sports and entertainment attorney Ryan Smith, who’s also the co-host of “My Two Cents” on BET, and Dr. Drew Pinsky of USC’s School of Medicine.
Jeff, I just want to play a little bit more of this audiotape, reported to be from the incident in the room. TMZ.com is where it’s from. Let’s play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON: Don’t let nobody out this room. (expletive deleted) Think you can steal my (expletive deleted) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don’t let nobody out of here. (expletive deleted), you think you can steal my (expletive deleted)?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Does it surprise you that, Jeff, that O.J. Simpson, who has had so many brushes with the law, would put himself in a situation like this?
TOOBIN: No, because of the incredible narcissism and sense of entitlement that he has always reflected in his behavior.
This is a guy, since he was a junior at USC has been one of the most famous people in the United States. He’s been coddled. He’s been told he was great. And he beat this case, and he left the trial with a smirk on his face, and it’s never gone away. And he just thinks that the world has to accommodate to him, and largely it has.
COOPER: Right. I mean, is that the fact that he is this — was this sports icon and was sort of coddled?
RYAN SMITH, CO-HOST, BET’S “MY TWO CENTS”: I think that’s a lot of it. I think we talk about this difference between right and wrong. When you’re coddled like that, particularly an athlete, there’s the sense all the time that you’re right. Everything you do is right.
When I hear this and when I hear O.J. conducting his own sting operation, it’s not so much that I see it as him thinking he’s above the law but I see it as him making — I’m right in this case, so I’m going to lead these guys to this room and get my stuff back.
COOPER: And when you see that mug shot with that little smile, that’s what you think, too?
SMITH: I think there’s — yes, I think there’s a right perspective.
TOOBIN: There is a deep personality defect there. You know, Tiger Woods is coddled. Michael Jordan is coddled. And they’re fine, upstanding, law abiding citizens. This guy, there’s something wrong with, and there has been for a long time.
COOPER: Doctor Pinsky, you know, despite a number of legal problems, this guy only has one misdemeanor conviction, which was beating Nicole years before she was killed. Do you think this has had an impact on his behavior, I mean, the fact that he has, you know, not been punished for a number of actions which he has been involved with?
PINSKY: Right. It’s the same thing I see with other people that have behavior problems. We tend to think in our society that somehow people cry out for help. They’re looking to be stopped. They’re not. They just keep going until they have to stop. And I think that’s going on here.
And look, one other point about sociopaths and severe narcissists. They are a pleasure to be around. They are wonderful and entertaining. They are the life of the party, and they can really make you feel good. God help you if you cross them.
COOPER: I want to play — Jeffrey.
TOOBIN: That is so true. And let’s not forget the obvious here. He killed Ron Goldman and his ex-wife. I mean, and I believe — and I devoted years of my life to this subject — and many people believe it, he killed those people. And he got away with it, which is the ultimate putting one over on the system.
So having achieved that triumph, you know, everything else is easy.
SMITH: Taking it away from that so much, I wouldn’t really — this is a totally different circumstance. And here, he’s looking at it like, you know what? If something — if something is mine, just like any other citizen in the world, why should I not be able to go get it in my way?
He even said, you know, “People told me to involve the police, but every time I involve the police, it becomes an O.J. story,” which is ironic because now it’s become an O.J. story because he didn’t involve.
COOPER: I want to play something that Alfred Beardsley said on “LARRY KING”. This is a guy who was in the room, one of these memorabilia collectors who witnessed the whole thing. Let’s play what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, “LARRY KING LIVE”: How many guns were involved?
ALFRED BEARDSLEY, WITNESS: I only saw — I know there were two. But I saw one. You know, this was a very small room in this seedy hotel that Riccio was staying at. And I only saw one. This guy came over and ordered me at gunpoint to pack the items up in the boxes we brought them in. I refused. And I was sitting in a chair, and I was told to get the “F” up, get the “F” up and I did get up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It just doesn’t get more surreal or sleazy than this. I got to tell you. I mean, I’m going to take a shower, frankly, after doing this hour. But how much trouble is he in? I mean…
TOOBIN: That’s real trouble. You can’t — I mean, you can’t go into a hotel room and wave a gun at somebody and say, “Pack stuff up and give it to me,” even if it’s yours. That’s not how the system works.
SMITH: The only problem…
COOPER: Ryan, finish.
SMITH: The only problem I have with that is this is the same guy who, a couple days ago, was saying, “I don’t want to go to Vegas to participate in this trial. O.J. apologized to me. Water under the bridge.”
So a defense attorney is going to look at that, someone who’s defending O.J., and is going to say that’s what he was saying now. Now look at the story he’s telling. And that’s going to cause problems.
****EDIT****
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Full transcripts can be found here:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0709/17/acd.01.html